The rector Marcelo Knobel  today (19) completes one year at the helm of Unicamp. In the following interview, the physicist takes stock of the first year of his administration, marked, according to him, by the restructuring of several areas of the University, including finance and administrative. “I would like this period to be remembered as the first year of recovery of the University's financial balance”, says Knobel, whose biggest surprise at the beginning of his term was to see the excess of power concentrated in the figure of a rector.

Knobel lists and describes the measures adopted to face the crisis, reveals his first impressions upon taking office – from the busy agenda to the undersized deficit –, emphasizes the effort to spread the reach and importance of Unicamp in society, and talks about the actions in ethnic-racial, diversity and human rights fields. 

Unicamp Portal – As fake news scheduled the community consultation. Like mr. Did you deal with rumors at the beginning and throughout this first year of management?

Marcelo Knobel – As fake news are a phenomenon related to our current world, with social media, and which has to do with the ease of transmitting information that cannot always be verified.

We lived with this at Unicamp in a very strong way during the campaign, in which they said that, as soon as we took over, we would privatize the University, end the daycare center, lay off two thousand employees, in addition to a series of other rumors that, naturally, did not have been confirmed and will not be confirmed.

Portal – Do the rumors persist?

Marcelo Knobel – Unfortunately, we have to deal with this. The only way to effectively face them is to communicate transparently and frankly. We are improving our efforts in this area, working with the perspective of much more open and broad communication. I consider it important to discuss all questions, doubts and problems as they arise. Many people are not familiar with this practice – they think we are lying, hiding data. We often don't show data because we don't actually know, and not because we don't want to disclose it. We have to change an ingrained culture at the University, even improving our own systems. This search is not just my choice; I see it as a result of current times. Society needs and must participate in these decisions.

Portal – What were your first impressions as soon as you took office?

Marcelo Knobel – The beginning was a shock, in many ways. The issue of the agenda, for example, already has an impact. In the case of a rector, it is always difficult and complicated, as it involves internal aspects, international representations and contacts, plus coordination with governments and various universities and research institutes.

But, beyond that, due to our own consultation system [to choose the rector] and governance, it wouldn't make any sense for me to change my way of being after spending six months talking to people [during the campaign]. On the contrary, I took it upon myself and make a point of listening and assisting anyone who comes to me. This demand is very strong.

There was also – and is – a natural movement at the beginning of the mandate, related to the creation and restructuring of various bodies and the mobilization of employees, which is not simple because it involves people's lives.

And, finally, something that really shocked me – perhaps out of ignorance – was the realization of the excess power that a rector holds.

Portal – Mr. Could you give an example?

Marcelo Knobel – Sometimes, due to the position I hold, I have to play the role of judge – whether in cases involving investigation results or in other situations that take place at the University. We are trying, little by little, to change this situation. This is a big responsibility that was – and still is – difficult to assimilate.

Portal – And in the financial sphere? What did the first diagnoses reveal?

Marcelo Knobel – They were really very difficult, delicate. We had the prospect that we would end the term without being able to restore the University's financial balance, which was one of the main objectives of our program. Despite this, we adopted strong, important measures – some unpopular – but which were necessary.

Referring to the previous question, often, in this position, we have to do what is necessary, not what we would like to do. It is obvious that it would be better to give a raise, recover everyone's purchasing power, not make cuts, not increase the value of “Bandejão” meals, etc. But, in the situation we find ourselves in, it is urgent to seek to regain balance.

The positive point is that we are having the opportunity to make important structural changes to the University, which will continue for a good period of time. I hope we leave this legacy.

Portal – Mr. Do you believe that this financial deficit was undersized?

Marcelo Knobel – There was not much clarity about the size of the deficit. The topic was even part of the campaign discussions. It was not known, for example, what was in the so-called “compromised part” of the University’s strategic reserve. There was no spreadsheet, nothing.

Initially, we decided to carry out a survey of the works and renovations that had been promised to Unicamp units and bodies, but not yet carried out. We found that the projects totaled more than R$550 million.  

We then had to adopt the first measure – difficult and unpopular – which was to practically postpone most of these promised works. Some units needed – and still need – improvements, but, in the current situation, reality imposes itself.

Afterwards, we looked at issues related to bonuses, which represent a considerable amount at the University. In this time of crisis, when it is necessary to contain expenses, we chose to make a linear cut and allow time for the units and bodies to organize themselves internally with the aim of reducing their respective certifications, thus reducing the number of bonuses. All of this was done so that, in a second moment, we could restructure and rethink this issue.

Among the various measures adopted, we also reviewed contracts and other actions that were necessary.

Portal – Have these measures already had any results? Mr. Would you highlight others not included above?

Marcelo Knobel - Now, apparently, things are starting to get back on track. I say apparently because, with the political situation in the country, it is impossible to know what will happen. There is no stability, there is no prospect of political calm on the horizon. As these factors influence the economic situation, we cannot take any risks.

As for the measures, I think it is important to highlight that the first of them was to end dual enrollment in all higher administration. More than anything, our objective was to show that senior management also needs to make its effort, its part.

We also put a freeze on all new hires. It was a tidying brake; Little by little, we organized ourselves. So much so that, when we took over, the budget approved the previous year predicted a deficit of around R$120 million [for 2017]. We redid the calculations and arrived at a deficit of RS 290 million. At the end of last year, with the measures adopted and the small improvement in the economic situation, the deficit ended up closing at R$209 million. It's not a little, it's a lot of money. We indeed need to adopt other austere measures to prevent this deficit from increasing.

Portal – Mr. recognizes and classifies some of the measures adopted as unpopular. How was the dialogue with different sectors of the community, especially those resistant to change?      

Marcelo Knobel – There was a little bit of everything. Naturally, we receive criticism. They were important – we need to hear them all and consider them. We know the difficulties arising from linear cuts and the injustices that could eventually be committed in some cases. However, as I said previously, the measures were necessary and needed to be adopted.

Furthermore, they were then accompanied by a working group created at the University Council (Consu) to develop new ideas and bring new contributions. This working group ended up suggesting, basically, measures similar to those we had initially thought of.

Portal – Is the creation of sectoral working groups to face the crisis also an unprecedented measure?

Marcelo Knobel – Here I reiterate the need to adopt a culture of transparency and goodwill so that the best can be done. If anyone has a good idea, please present it. She will always be very welcome. We often hear that we are speaking about the crisis, which was even the subject of a comment of mine at the last Consu session [held on April 4]. A deficit of R$209 million is not a speech. The crisis is real. Our current account balance is available for anyone who wants to check.

We are working in a deficit regime that will not be sustainable for much longer. This is the reality we must face. People know this reality, but when it touches our pockets, our lives, there is dissatisfaction and an environment conducive to the spread of rumors.

We cannot allow our financial situation to reach an unsustainable point. Just look at how Unesp is doing, which has gone through and is going through a dramatic moment, seen and followed by everyone. They were unable to give the 3% increase in 2016, they delayed the 13th salary last year, in other words, their staff is experiencing a situation that, I'm sure, no one wants to go through at Unicamp.

Portal – Still in the field of dialogue, what has the dialogue been like with different government bodies regarding the transfer of funds, including the SUS and the increase in the ICMS percentage for campus 2 in Limeira?

Marcelo Knobel – This is something much talked about. Some even suggest that we should carry out, within the scope of Cruesp [Council of Rectors of Universities of the State of São Paulo], a larger movement with the aim of seeking more resources from the government. I guarantee that we have done this systematically, with a significant effort.

I went to speak to the governor [Geraldo Alckmin] and the vice president [Márcio França] – current governor – several times. I spoke to practically all state deputies, I went to the National Congress to ask federal deputies for amendments, I met with several secretaries of State to explain the situation at Unicamp and show how much it contributes to society in the most diverse areas.

We are sensitizing all political forces in this regard, especially to obtain greater support for the health area and for all issues of permanence, which are also important and necessary.

Naturally, this is a delicate situation, because everyone is going through a difficult time from a financial point of view, but I reiterate that, even so, this effort has been made systematically.

Portal – Has there been reciprocity? Is there an understanding of the scope of the mission and the benefits generated by the University?

Marcelo Knobel – There is reciprocity, but on terms. As for the University's mission, perhaps the understanding is not complete, but we have made progress. I think any movement is important to make this happen. The most complicated issue for society to understand is precisely the complexity of the University and the variety of fields in which it operates. Unicamp is not limited to its undergraduate students – if we were to calculate how much Unicamp costs depending on the number of students it admits per year, it would indeed seem like an expensive university. However, we have research, the hospital issue, all aspects of assistance, extension, etc.

We must do more and more to explain to society how Unicamp works. We have done this, showing how the University can be useful on the most diverse fronts.

Returning to the issue of reciprocity, we have excellent partners who know our reality. This is the case of the mayors of Campinas, Piracicaba and Limeira, among others, and several state deputies. They are our interlocutors in various parts of the State. We have the channels, which does not mean that we do not need to act more and have a stronger dialogue with different sectors of society. But it is certainly a path that we are following diligently. In this context, there are, in certain aspects, very positive signs.

Portal – In what sense?

Marcelo Knobel – The current governor, for example, has already publicly signaled that he intends to act more systematically with regard to the issue of permanence. This dialogue needs to be maintained.

We have the possibility of obtaining more contributions from the Department of Health – I will continue to insist, despite the political instability and the fact that it is an election year. These factors make some longer-term actions a little difficult, especially in a country where no one knows what will happen in the next elections.

Portal – Mr. Could you highlight the most important points of the administrative restructuring implemented in this first year of management?

Marcelo Knobel – We are working to implement the Transparency Portal and reorganize a series of processes within the University. Our goal is to reduce bureaucracy and make processes more agile and computerized. It is a broad restructuring – also slow and complex –, but we can say that the result that will come will be very positive for the University.

Portal – It can be seen that there is a focus on a more global university model that is attentive to contemporary demands. What do you mr. What stands out among the measures and initiatives adopted?

Marcelo Knobel – The University is very large and, in fact, there are many actions spread across all sectors, whether among employees, professors or research groups. What we are doing is trying to organize and support, within our possibilities, these demands in a general, institutional way.

I think it is important to highlight the creation of IdEA [Institute of Advanced Studies], whose embryo emerged under the management of Professor Fernando Costa and was later restructured as Penses. We recovered the idea that the University needs to have an institute of advanced studies that addresses, in an interdisciplinary way, questions at the frontier of thought. We are developing a series of programs, although their development, so to speak, is slower.

We also created, in the first months of management, as foreseen in the program, the Sérgio Vieira de Mello Refugee Chair. There are six and a half million refugees in the world, and it is not possible for a university that claims to be contemporary, current, to close its eyes to this fundamental issue. It seemed that the problem would not affect us, but see that the crisis in Venezuela is already having repercussions throughout the country – there are even Venezuelan and Syrian refugees in Campinas.

We also created, based on a notice from the federal government, the University Pact for the Promotion of Respect for Diversity, the Culture of Peace and Human Rights. This resulted in the formation of a group that has carried out work in the areas of citizenship, diversity and human rights.

These projects, as well as the restructuring of the Museum of Visual Arts, are still in their initial stages, but I am fully convinced that they will soon bear fruit and will be very important for us to have a university that thinks about contemporary issues in a more active and effective way, standing as a counterpoint to these very difficult times of fake news and intolerance.

In addition to these initiatives, we are participating in the project Living Values. Magna Carta Observatory, whose objective is to rethink what the fundamental values ​​of the contemporary university are.

Finally, I think it is very important to highlight the change in our entrance exam, with the adoption of affirmative actions that are part of this process of highlighting the importance of diversity in our environment.

Portal – Is Unicamp a multiversity?

Marcelo Knobel – Undoubtedly. Unicamp brings this complexity and these multiple aspects that are often difficult to measure. It operates in the most diverse areas – in the most diverse ways – and influences the lives of millions of people in the most unthinkable ways. I think that this vision of a university that is extremely connected to society, in thousands of different ways, corresponds to the idea of ​​multiversity described a long time ago by Clark Kerr [president of the University of California between 1958-1967].

Portal – In this sense, like Mr. Do you see Unicamp’s relationship with society today?

Marcelo Knobel – The University dialogues with society all the time, but its volatility and complexity are often difficult to measure. This is a bit of our difficulty – to actually show the importance of the University for the future, for the development of the country.

Sometimes we have to hold on to more concrete examples. We usually mention the case of Inova [Unicamp Innovation Agency], which has only existed for 15 years. It compiled a set of more than 500 Unicamp daughter companies, which generate more than 28 thousand direct jobs and have annual revenue of more than R$3 billion. When we analyze these companies, we see the diversity of people who are linked to Unicamp and the impact that each of them produces. But this is just a small aspect of a vibrant and rich university like ours.

The positive side of my complicated schedule as dean is that it allows me to have a more complete view of this entire complex network. I'll give a prosaic example, which has to do with my last weekend [April 7th and 8th]. On Saturday morning, I participated in an event on urban mobility held in partnership with EMTU [Empresa Metropolitana de Transportes Urbanos], from São Paulo, in which 180 young people came together to try to find solutions to the area's problems. Then I went to the State Union of Students (UEE) congress, held at Largo São Francisco [São Paulo], to participate in a debate about public university financing.

On Sunday, I stopped by Mercado Mundo Mix, with which Unicamp collaborates, at Estação Guanabara [in Campinas]. I also visited the Fazenda Argentina construction site, where Campinas Decor will be held, an event that mobilizes the city's construction market.

In other words, in the space of a few hours, I went from the creative economy to the construction market; from public education to innovation; and from future entrepreneurs to partnerships between institutions. It's like this all the time, and every day I learn something new. If even we, who are in administration, are unable to capture all of Unicamp's complexity, imagine someone from outside. Our challenge, in communication, is to show these faces in a vivid way, without it becoming official propaganda, so that people can really understand that public universities are fundamental for the development of a society.
 

Remember some topics that marked the first year
by Marcelo Knobel at the head of the Unicamp Rectory
 

Portal – How did Mr. Would you like this first year of management to be remembered? There is something that Mr. would you like to highlight?

Marcelo Knobel – I believe it was a year of reorganization. I would like this period to be remembered as the first year of recovery of the University's financial balance. It was our main topic on the agenda, with many internal political difficulties – and with many difficulties, too, in the search to change the culture, to show data transparently, to openly discuss all issues. When we arrived here, our budget commitment to payroll reached around 120%; now, we are close to 90%. There was no small amount of work done to make this fall. It was, I reiterate, a year of internal reorganization with the aim of growing again and carrying out new projects.

It is also good to remember that, in addition to the financial difficulty, there was a new situation. Naturally, whoever takes on a position needs time to get to know the processes, but we are already here in full force, discussing the issue of quotas and several complex issues. I hope that this first year of restructuring has served to pave the way for new ideas that will soon be consolidated.

Portal – There was an initial impression that, from a financial point of view, balance would not be reached even at the end of the administration. Has this view changed?

Marcelo Knobel – I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Overall, the outlook is better, but I still don't feel completely safe. The problem is our complete lack of political perspective. It prevents any prediction. We have no idea what will happen in this country. Betting on an economic recovery, no matter how much we hope for it, is very difficult. The tension in society is so great, and the outcome of the elections is so unpredictable, that what we should do, in my opinion, is to consolidate the internal base so as not to depend on the economic situation.

It is important to remember that any decision made will have permanent impacts. The step to be taken needs to be very well thought out, very well established, with prospects on the horizon. As a manager, I see this very clearly.

Portal – What message did Mr. Would you like to leave it to the community?

Marcelo Knobel – I think it is important to highlight that whoever is in the administration wants to help the University, they really want to collaborate in order to make Unicamp stable, a good place to work, that contributes more and more to our country, to our world, to our society in general. To achieve this, we count on the partnership of the entire community. We are all in the same boat. Our goal is everyone's goal: to make Unicamp even better.

 

Discover the ideas of Marcelo Knobel

INVESTMENT SPEECH

https://www.unicamp.br/unicamp/sites/default/files/2017-04/Discurso%20Knobel.pdf

ARTICLES

Commitment to society | O Estado de S. Paulo, May 4, 2017

Public management and responsibility | Popular Mail, November 7, 2017

Academic excellence requires public funding | The State of S. Paulo, January 5, 2018

Public universities in São Paulo, changes made | The State of S. Paul, January 26, 2018

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