Visiting Unicamp for the first time, where he came to give a workshop and an open conference, sociologist Gabriel Gatti, from the Universidad del Pais Basco, took a break from his activities to speak to the Unicamp website. On the occasion, he answered questions about two of his research themes, “victims” and “disappeared”, but also addressed issues such as violence and xenophobia. The following article presents the main points of the interview given by Gatti, who came to the University at the invitation of professors Omar Ribeiro Thomaz and Adriana Villalón, both from the Institute of Philosophy and Human Sciences (IFCH). This Wednesday (21), Gatti will give a talk at the IFCH Fausto Castilho Auditorium, starting at 17pm.
Is this your first visit to Unicamp? Do you work in collaboration with teachers here?
Yes, this is the first time I visit Unicamp. Unfortunately, I don't have any collaborative work with colleagues here. However, with this closer contact, some partnership may emerge for the future.
What topics will you address in the activities you will carry out at Unicamp?
I work with two themes in particular. One of them is the category of victim. The other is the figure of the missing person, who is part of a larger project that I coordinate. I will talk about these two subjects both here at Unicamp and at Unifesp, in São Paulo.
What is the concept of “victim” present in your work?
It's a pretty broad concept. A victim is basically the person who suffers because of a specific violence. I am interested in investigating the reasons why the figure of the victim spreads throughout the world. It is present in Europe, the United States, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America. The victim has become commonplace. It's everywhere, for a variety of reasons.
What forms of violence cause the most victims?
There are different forms of violence: political, ethnic, religious and even the most banal, such as when a person is attacked by a dog. We call all those affected victims, regardless of the cause.
The impression of a significant part of people is that violence is increasing throughout the world. Is this perception correct?
This is a discussion I have been having with some colleagues. Personally, I do not believe that violence is greater today than in the past. I think there is, indeed, greater sensitivity, greater empathy towards the pain of others, which is a characteristic of the contemporary world. In the same way, I also do not believe that there are more victims today than before, but rather a greater possibility of recognizing this victim. Suffering is a characteristic that runs through the history of humanity.
In Brazil, in particular, violence has reached worrying levels. We have registered victims both on the part of criminals and on the part of the State...
I do not dare to analyze the Brazilian case in depth. Your question makes me think about the episode with councilwoman Mariella. State and political violence is atrocious. This is a characteristic of Latin America that comes from afar. I am interested in working, at the moment, less on the increase in violence, but rather on expanding recognition of those who are victims of violence. In Latin America, the exercise of State violence against citizens has its own characteristics. The figure of the victim in Latin America leads us to think about the figure of the disappeared. Currently, violence is manifesting itself in a different way than in the 1970s. In some places in Latin America and in Mexico, what is happening is that the State is failing to protect an important part of the population, who are subject to being murdered and disappear through the action of a series of forces, including drug trafficking. I don't know the Brazilian case in detail, but from a distance it seems to me to be a classic case of the absence of the State figure in the places where it should act.
We have seen xenophobic demonstrations all over the world, which produce many victims, especially refugees. Is xenophobia a form of symbolic violence?
Well, I say again that violence is not among the topics I research, but I believe that yes, xenophobia is a form of violence that causes many victims. However, it is necessary to understand that the victim I treat has not always been subjected to some type of violence. There are victims who assume this condition without a direct cause. An example is a person who says they are suffering, but cannot explain the reason for their suffering. In this case, she is also recognized as a victim. Returning to your question, race and gender prejudice and xenophobia are forms of both symbolic and real violence. And this is generating a brutal contemporary phenomenon, which is the death of part of the African population who try to migrate to European countries. Many succumb during the crossing of the Mediterranean.
You live in the Basque Country. How do you see the separatist movements in Spain?
As a resident of the Basque Country, it is difficult not to reflect on the subject. Spain is a complicated country, within a complicated Europe. Spain is a country with very strong peripheral nationalism and, therefore, has great difficulty in establishing a centralist policy. Peripheral nationalism is very intense in the country, such as Basque and Catalan. Over the past 100 years, there has been permanent tension between one side of the issue and the other. In the last ten years, there has been a dynamic of tension between the central State and Catalonia. If you ask me what the outcome of this dispute will be, I will tell you that I have no idea. The Spanish right is very right. There are things that seemed to have disappeared, like remnants of Francoism, but we have seen this phenomenon emerge with brutality. At the same time, we have a very interesting scene, such as the emergence of the M-15 [name given to the popular demonstrations that took place on May 15, 2011, whose objective was to demand social and political changes in the country] and other social movements in the country.
Unicamp recently created its Human Rights Observatory. How can academia contribute to the effective defense of human rights?
Well, academia is something very big, which doesn't just generate one type of investigation. We have people in laboratories, we have researchers involved in studies aimed at formulating public policies, etc. In the case of human rights, I think that their defense is a hybrid product, formed by social mobilizations and academic work. In Colombia and Mexico, for example, society is asking academia for help to reflect on the issue of the disappeared. In this sense, I think universities have a lot to contribute.
