Marcelo Knobel completed two years at the helm of Unicamp in mid-April. It was a difficult period, as he admits, mainly because of the budget crisis imposed by Brazil's low economic activity. The financial difficulties led the University's Central Administration to adopt unpopular measures, such as a 30% linear cut in the payment of bonuses and restrictions on new hiring. “Unicamp had to activate 'the tidying brake'”, explains the director. Despite the obstacles, says Knobel, the University did not remain paralyzed and promoted a series of achievements, such as the adoption of the ethnic-racial quota system and the launch of the Indigenous Entrance Exam, two new ways of entering the institution's undergraduate courses.
Asked about the prospects for the University over the next two years, the rector says he is pessimistic from a financial point of view, but believes that important advances will occur in the academic and administrative spheres. In addition to the challenge of doing more with reduced resources, Knobel, who recently assumed the presidency of the Council of Rectors of São Paulo State Universities (Cruesp), will have the mission of helping to lead the movement in defense of public universities, which he considers to be under danger.
According to him, the autonomy of universities is being challenged. “The freedoms of professorship and expression are also being questioned. These are the pillars that support a public higher education institution. Therein lies the danger. Let's try to reverse this situation by showing the importance of public universities. Let's clarify how important the university is for the training of future generations, who will be responsible for the development of Brazil”, he adds.
In the following interview, Knobel talks about the cuts made by the federal government in resources allocated to education, other obstacles imposed on public universities and the complexity of the role he holds. “I had no idea that these two years would be so difficult”, recognizes the physicist, who tries to avoid stress by preparing, whenever possible, dinner for the family.
Last April, you completed two years as head of Unicamp's Rectory. How do you classify this period?
Marcelo Knobel - A period of many challenges and learning. It was also a period of organization. These were two years marked, unfortunately, by adverse political and economic situations in the country. Despite this, I think we have made a lot of progress. Even with the financial difficulties, we managed to build prospects for a way out of the crisis. We created new projects and programs and kept Unicamp's innovation brand firm and active.
Facing the budget crisis experienced by the University, caused mainly by the low activity of the Brazilian economy, required the adoption of some measures considered harsh by the Central Administration. What assessment do you make of the impacts of these initiatives?
Marcelo Knobel - In fact, many measures were considered harsh and unpopular, mainly because they hit people's pockets or work routines. We promoted a 30% linear cut in bonuses, something that was absolutely necessary. We also had to restrict new hiring, which naturally creates difficult situations in some sectors. However, Unicamp had to activate the 'clearance brake' to face financial difficulties. It is the manager's role to do this. We are reaping concrete results from these and other initiatives, but we have not yet achieved budget balance. Unfortunately, the country's economy is not helping in the effort to eliminate our deficit.
Despite the financial difficulties, the University was not paralyzed. What are the main achievements of your management in the last two years?
Marcelo Knobel - Really, the University didn't stop, and that was our big difference. We managed to face the crisis without the need, for example, to launch a voluntary dismissal plan and without delaying salaries or the payment of the thirteenth salary. Furthermore, we implement important projects and programs. In relation to admission to our undergraduate courses, for example, we implemented new policies, such as the adoption of the ethnic-racial quota system and the holding of the indigenous entrance exam. Even during the crisis, investment in student retention was increased. We made an effort to create the Executive Directorate for Human Rights, which is still being organized, but which will bring important contributions to our day-to-day experience.
Each Vice-Rectorship continued with its schedule, working on the implementation of programs, such as in the areas of curricular innovation, multi-user equipment and ethics and data transparency. We created the Transparency Portal, through which we fully open the University's accounts. There are several initiatives that may not be as visible, but that contribute to qualifying Unicamp's activities. From a management point of view, a fundamental measure was to transform into practice the idea that all permanent expenditure must be approved by the University Council. The dean's pen lost strength. Everything must be approved collectively, after extensive discussion.
Looking into perspective, would you outline a prognosis for Unicamp for the next two years?
Marcelo Knobel - From a financial point of view, I am quite pessimistic. We have many uncertainties regarding the behavior of the economy and politics. We have a very unstable situation. The moment requires caution. From an academic point of view, we can have good prospects. We are working on several undergraduate, postgraduate, research and extension programs. These programs will certainly continue, as we are managing the process committed to following these actions. In our understanding, to defend the public university at this complex time, we need to show more and more the vigor of our activities.
Regarding the “complex moment” mentioned by you, some of your statements drew attention to the fact that public universities are in danger. What danger are you talking about?
Marcelo Knobel - Well, in the case of public universities in São Paulo, we are facing a Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry installed, without due clarity, by the Legislative Assembly. The first statements we heard in the context of the CPI demonstrate the enormous lack of knowledge about the functioning of universities. The autonomy of universities is being challenged. The freedoms of professorship and expression are also being questioned. These are the pillars that support a public higher education institution. Therein lies the danger. Let's try to reverse this situation by showing the importance of public universities. Let's clarify how important the university is for the training of future generations, who will be responsible for the development of Brazil.
Who is interested in this movement to attack public universities?
Marcelo Knobel - Honestly, I can't understand it. Any country in the world that went through a serious crisis only managed to turn things around by investing in education, science and technology. There is no other way out. Removing resources from education and universities amounts to shooting ourselves in the foot. This affects the country's development. See what is happening with federal universities. A 30% cut in funding makes it impossible for institutions to function properly. This will certainly have negative consequences for the future. Training generations of scientists and leaders in different areas of knowledge is not something trivial or something that can be accomplished overnight.
You have also stated that universities, public ones in particular, still have difficulty communicating adequately with society, in order to show the importance of these institutions for the country. What is left to be said for Brazilian citizens?
Marcelo Knobel - See, this is not a criticism of people who work in the field of communication at universities. I know the dedication of these professionals, including here at Unicamp. They are, to a large extent, true heroes. However, the university must make a greater effort as a whole. You should make an investment in this area. It needs to carry out training for managers, teachers and employees so that they participate more in public debates, so that they write more articles and so that they increasingly strengthen the dialogue with society, in order to show the importance of the university. We have become accustomed to living in a crystal dome. Today, we need to get more involved. It is a matter of survival for the public university to practice more effective communication.
In general, citizens are unaware that a medicine or technology they use on a daily basis was developed at a university, right?
Marcelo Knobel - Not just the common citizen, but politicians too. They don't understand how science works and how technological development occurs. There is no new technology without good basic science, without a strong humanities area, without strong arts. It is the set of these areas that forms the human being. Who would have thought that today we would have cell phones with internet? This and other technologies were developed with the contribution of different areas of knowledge. This type of understanding is lacking. It is not possible to separate knowledge into that which is useful and that which is not useful. Now, all knowledge is important, as it complements each other, even if this does not seem obvious at first glance.
You have just assumed the presidency of the Council of Rectors of São Paulo State Universities. What is the role of Cruesp in defending not only the institutions it represents, but higher education in general?
Marcelo Knobel - We are living in a positive moment. The three rectors who make up Cruesp have a very good relationship. We have been holding regular meetings. We have worked together to show society, legislators and public managers the importance of the three São Paulo universities for both the State and Brazil. We have been working on common projects, such as celebrating 30 years of university autonomy, a fundamental aspect for institutions to reach their current stage of maturity and development. This joint work is not simple, as each university has its problems. However, we are making an immense effort to build a common agenda. The three from São Paulo account for 35% of the research carried out in Brazil. We have an obligation to be more active nationally and internationally to defend the legacy built by public universities. They constitute an asset of society.
Like any institutions, public universities also have deficiencies, they also have flaws. Doing a self-critical exercise, what would you say needs to be improved at Unicamp?
Marcelo Knobel - There is no doubt that our management system still needs to be improved. We are working in this direction, but there is a need to move forward. Computerization is a challenge that we have to overcome. Our Strategic Planning establishes that the Unicamp Digital project will be completed in 2020. We are working hard towards this, but it is not trivial. We are also acting to improve process flow, improve control mechanisms and increase transparency. The goal is to do more and more, better.
You stated that the first two years of management also served as a learning experience. Could you name your best and worst day during this period?
Marcelo Knobel - I need to think. It's hard to pinpoint the worst day. Strike situations are certainly very tense. These are difficult moments, like the episode of the occupation of the Rectory building. Negotiations are always complex and sometimes involve unpleasant situations, such as being the target of offenses. Our objective here is to do the best for Unicamp, the university community and society. Obviously, it is not always possible to meet everyone's expectations. We understand people's needs and recognize the merit of many of the demands, but we cannot make decisions that put the functioning of the University at risk. On the other hand, I had great days in these two years. One of them was on the occasion of the approval of the ethnic-racial quota system. Another was the arrival of indigenous students. These are moments that deserve to be celebrated. An equally important and positive aspect is living and working with so many people who love Unicamp, and who work hard to have a better University every day. I thank everyone who participates in this journey.
Unicamp always appears well placed in the various international university rankings. Is there room for improvement?
Marcelo Knobel - We cannot stay as we are, at the risk of being overtaken. You always need to improve. We still need to evolve in relation to the internationalization of the University, notably in relation to the experience of the teaching and student bodies. To be a world-class university, we need to increase our internationalization rate. We also have room to expand the impact of publications, which will require more interdisciplinary research and greater relationships with companies, among other measures. There is room to move forward, and we are working on it.
Did you imagine these two years would be so difficult?
Marcelo Knobel - I didn't imagine. I was Dean of Undergraduate Studies and dealt directly with issues related to the Dean's Office, but I had no idea of the difficulties I would face. There are the difficulties of everyday life, the schedule, etc. Unlike what happens in other countries, where universities have different managers for representative and executive activities, here the rector fulfills both roles. This makes the schedule very complicated. More than that, the most important issue is the level of responsibility of the role. Every decision, every signature has to be preceded by a lot of reflection. Even though we have committees that previously analyze each subject, the entire weight and responsibility rests with the rector, including in future terms. There are very difficult decisions, such as applying punishments resulting from CPPS [Permanent Processing Commission]. These are delicate moments, especially for someone trained in Physics and not in Law.
How does the dean relax after leaving the office?
Marcelo Knobel - My hobby is cooking. I try to get home early to prepare dinner for the children. This is something that gives me pleasure and relaxation. Then I watch a series on the internet and go to bed early. Relaxing in the presence of family is my main fuel.