The attacks by the Jair Bolsonaro (PSL) administration on the country's public universities undermine the government's own objective of attracting more private resources to them, says Marcelo Knobel, rector of Unicamp (State University of Campinas).
The assessment is made at a time when the Ministry of Education proposes Future-se, a program that aims to diversify the financing of federal universities. Among the planned measures is the creation of funds that would be traded on the Stock Exchange and part of the income would be donated to educational institutions.
President of Cruesp, a body that brings together the directors of São Paulo's state universities (USP, Unesp and Unicamp), Knobel defends their work, but assesses that there were errors at times, such as a delay in reacting to the deterioration of the economy.
This year, the three institutions celebrate 30 years of the decree that gave them autonomy to manage their budget -- the majority of which comes from a fraction of the ICMS (Tax on Circulation of Goods and Services) collected in São Paulo.
Together, they account for around a third of the research produced in Brazil. A professor at Unicamp since 1995, Knobel, 51, advocates that they continue on this path, but supports a diversification of higher education in the country, with institutions dedicated to teaching that do not need to carry out research.
What a balance Mr. What makes 30 years of autonomy for São Paulo universities?
Autonomy was fundamental for the growth of universities, which were able to plan the future. All indicators since then have been very positive, both in terms of enrollment, publications and assistance. This is why universities in São Paulo are among the best in Latin America.
And what were the mistakes made during this period?
There is a mistake in not being able to communicate what we do effectively. There was also a mistake in betting too much on the past [of the economic trajectory] and it is necessary to see that the economy can have ups, but sometimes the downs are very strong.
We never expected a recession as strong as it was, and I think universities were slow to respond to this period. So it is necessary to carry out more conservative analyzes [of the economy], use the resource based on several possible scenarios.
There were also questionable decisions, such as the one that led the elite administrative employees to become full professors at USP. How to avoid this?
It's part of learning. At Unicamp, for example, we determined that all expenses with permanent implications must be approved by the University Council. It is necessary to prioritize, be careful when making new investments and have intelligence cores to predict the trend of the economy to use resources accordingly. Universities have been improving in this aspect, also with controllership and transparency.
How is Unicamp's financial situation?
We received the university [in 2017] with expenditure of 117% [of expenses in relation to revenue] and we made a very important effort. Today it is around 102%. However, we still haven't managed to balance the books, and my concern is that the economic situation in the country is still very worrying.
What are you planning to balance the books?
We are concerned about not increasing the deficit, unfortunately not replacing all the employees and teachers who are retiring, of which there are many at the moment, in addition to reviewing all contracts. It really is something that worries us a lot, how the country's economy will evolve.
Is the financial issue the main threat to universities in São Paulo today?
The main threat, in addition to the financial issue, is the political environment. In the state of São Paulo there is a CPI [which investigates state institutions], we have answered all doubts and demands, but it is a climate that is not very favorable to universities. We need to make a big communication effort to show their importance.
How do you evaluate the Bolsonaro administration in education and science?
Concerned about attacks and the lack of resources for universities and science and technology. I am convinced that the academic and scientific community will show the government the importance of the sector for the country's development.
What is your opinion about Future-se?
It is still a very incipient program, there are many doubts about financing, and the key thing is to understand that anywhere in the world, research and good public universities are funded by the state. Of course, there is the possibility of other sources, but the presence of the state is fundamental.
What point in the plan did Mr. Did you find it problematic?
The creation of a fund, and how it will be constituted, how the resources will appear...
But do you think the creation of an exchange-traded fund itself is a bad idea?
It's not a bad idea as an idea, but the problem is who will finance this fund after so many attacks on universities and how this fund will not hinder public investment.
Does the discourse against universities alienate private investors?
Undoubtedly. Not only the private investor but also the students themselves. There is a very negative discourse to the contrary, what are they going to study for? It is important to state clearly: we need higher education for the country's development.
Recently, you defended the existence of other models in Brazilian higher education. Can you explain better?
The research university is a very expensive university, and we need to expand the public system. An alternative in several countries are universities that excel in teaching, but that do not necessarily carry out research. And then we would have mobility for students who want to move from one system to another. We need more alternatives in the Brazilian higher education system.
In what other aspects can Brazilian higher education change? For example, on your resume?
We have a curriculum that demands a lot from students in terms of hours in the classroom. We can transform this by working more hands-on, more projects, more international presence.
Mr. has stated that the salary cap in the state reduces the attractiveness of careers at universities in São Paulo, including because it is lower than that at federal universities. What has been the impact?
We already have cases of teachers who are resigning due to a lack of future prospects, especially in areas with more possibilities for well-paid work, such as IT and medicine.
It's always difficult to talk about this in such an unequal country, but there is a ceiling in São Paulo that is R$23, while in the federal government it is R$39, which has important implications for the future of higher education in São Paulo. This needs to be discussed calmly and frankly.
Mr. is against charging tuition fees at public universities. How do you respond to those who say that it is not fair for a poor family to contribute to the child of a rich family studying at USP, Unesp and Unicamp?
Charging a monthly fee will not solve the problem. This can be resolved by improving the tax system, which is currently unfair. If we improve, the rich will pay more than the poor. It is not at universities that this has to be resolved, because this same argument would then apply to hospitals, primary education, secondary education, which makes no sense at all.
MARCELO KNOBEL
At 51 years old, he is rector of Unicamp and president of Cruesp (Council of Rectors of São Paulo State Universities). Born in Buenos Aires, he came to Brazil with his family at the age of eight. Graduated in physics, he has a doctorate in science from Unicamp and has a postdoctoral degree from the Istituto Elettrotecnico Nazionale Galileo Ferraris, in Italy, and the Institute of Applied Magnetism, in Spain
Read the article in Folha:
https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/educacao/2019/08/quem-vai-investir-nas-universidades-apos-tanto-ataque-questiona-reitor-da-unicamp.shtml
Read more about 30 years of university autonomy:
https://revistapesquisa.fapesp.br/2019/05/07/marcelo-knobel-o-aprendizado-da-autonomia/
http://www.idea.unicamp.br/autonomia-universitaria
